AD1T points

Quesiti tecnici riguardanti l'Ape anni '50, '60 e '70 (telai A, B, C, D, E, MP) / Technical questions about Ape in the fifties, sixties and seventies (A, B, C, D, E, MP chassis).
smithjames0
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AD1T points

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

Hi,

Can anyone help, I am trying to how to set the points on my ape I have watched a few video's but they do not have the same ignition system as my AD1T. I also need to find what the points should be set at, can anyone help with this?

Many regards

James
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MarioNYC
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da MarioNYC »

James,

Can you post a picture of your engine and points? Get an idea of what we're looking at.

Mario
smithjames0
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

Hi,

Thanks for the help.
IMG_7286.jpg
IMG_7291.jpg
IMG_7295.jpg
I could get the flywheel off to take a better picture OI- Is it a case of levering it off or is a special tool required?

Regards

James
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Kalimero
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da Kalimero »

Hi James,
let's begin from the start! What is the problem? No spark? Engine is not starting? or running strangely?
If you think to have a electrical problem you have to get the flywheel off. If there is no seeger as extractor you have to get the right one. Have a look if there is a thread in the middle of the flywheel.
In my opinion your pins (don't know if this is the correct name for them) are to wide open anyway ... and by the way: I had a look at the manual in order to find out the right angle of ignition timing. It should be set at 25°. You can check it with a ignition timing gun
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MarioNYC
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da MarioNYC »

Wouldn't be a bad idea to line up a new condenser so you have it to go in there.

I use a stop in the spark plug hole to keep the flywheel from turning, and in a pinch that could be an unfrayed section of rope, though I do have the proper piston stop now to screw into the spark plug hole. Careful of the wood block method against the flywheel fins, as this could break them, unbalancing the flywheel.

The nut on your flywheel I believe should have the circlip ring to retain the nut in place, when the nut is loosened from the crankshaft it will stop against the circlip and back off the flywheel. Inside are your points, condenser and coil.

Make sure before taking off the whole deal that the points operate, i.e. open and close. The reason I got my Ape for the price I did was because the points were stuck. A tap with the screwdriver opened them and I started the Ape easily after.
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MarioNYC
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da MarioNYC »

OK, I see the points are open, can you rotate the flywheel and see that they close?
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da MarioNYC »

There is a German fid on youtube who does a lot of work and riding in Apes, I tried to see if he showed taking off a flywheel in one of his multipart videos, but no, I didn't find it right off.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSWJfl ... PmN26w8_GA

if you wand to look for yourself. Brush up on your German.
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

Thanks for everyones help
Kalimero ha scritto: 5 agosto 2021, 8:36 Hi James,
let's begin from the start! What is the problem? No spark? Engine is not starting? or running strangely?
The problem is I have no spark!

Things checked so far -
Cleaned all the earths (I needed to do this anyway)
Replace some spade connectors
Fitted a new and fully charged battery
Checked all the fuses
Check the coil - (I have continuity through the coils primary side)
Connected an earth to terminal two of the coil
Checked the points gap - (It seams like it 0.015 and I think it's closing fully but not 100% hence why I would like the flywheel off)
Checked to see if the magneto is generating voltage.......
White lead - Yes
Green - Yes
Green / Yellow - Yes
Other Green / Yellow - Yes
Brown - Yes (But this is connected to the battery via a 8A fuse??)
Grey - NO! (other reason for removing the flywheel)
Black - connected to earth

Not checked
The timing - I figured even if the timing is out I would still get a spark!

Flywheel
I have removed the nut and a washer behind it but the flywheel is stuck fast!

The world of points and magneto's is new to me, the oldest car i've owned is a 1986 Mk2 Ford Fiesta which had an electronic ignition with a distributor - this is a learning curve B-)

Regards
James
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MarioNYC
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da MarioNYC »

OK, so you are probably missing the circlip that fits inside the groove inside where the flywheel is attached to the crank. See the photo attached and get one. I haven't a clue which other model Vespa may have this in the same year, I do know some parts are shared with the GL, not to many. My Vespa Rally has this setup, so it worked well for Piaggio to not have another specialty tool to pull flywheels.

So, either get the proper circlip for the center as pictured (behind the "d"), or a flywheel or pulley puller will help. The two holes used for the dust cover may not hold enough torque for a puller against them, but in absence of the circlip, that's your route. Do not prise!!! You may damage the magneto coils underneath.
flywheel Capture.JPG
You may find brittle wires once you remove the flywheel, and any reputable Vespa or Lambretta shop could rewire it. If it all looks fine, check the points open and close fully, and change that condenser.

Mario
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da MarioNYC »

And you almost got me out to the garden shed to pull out my Ape to do some work on her.

Almost.
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

I got a new circlip and the flywheel came off first try L_K*

I have checked the points again, they measured 0.040 when open, so I adjusted them to 0.015 but I still don't get any voltage on the grey wire when I turn the engine over OI-
View recent photos.png
I've notice my condenser has two wires at the top, most of the pictures I seen the condenser one has one wire??

James
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

Hi,

I’ve tested the resistance across each coil, they all measure 1.3 ohms. I also tested the condenser using some instructions I found on YouTube, the resistance starts low and goes up to 50Mohms, could this be the problem?

Regards
James
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MarioNYC
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da MarioNYC »

You have done a pretty thorough job of getting your money's worth out of the tester you have. In my experience with other Vespas, the condenser is a wear item that eventually weakens and stops storing the charge before discharge via the points. I don't know the reason for the increased resistance, but a new condenser can't hurt (unless thrown at you). I forgot how I found mine, perhaps the trauma of the search has me forgetting the pain, but you are closer to the sources of the parts, shouldn't be difficult to find the correct one. I did a search by part number and believe I found it stateside here.

Good Luck,

Mario
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

Hi,

I managed to get the Ape started Cornuto2 but...... to do so I connected the green wire from the magneto to the coil and left the grey wire disconnected.....and... it only started with the help of WD40 down the plug hole!

In the mean time I have bought a TDC tool and timing disc. This evening I followed the instruction on [Youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i97CiLJXPLw&t=612s[/Youtube] I found that my ignition is massively retarded (30 degrees ish) do I take it the plate thing the magneto is on is in the wrong place?? and if so do I just unscrew it and move it?

Regards

James

Ps does anyone have a picture of the magneto in the correct place on a AD1T?
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MarioNYC
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Re: AD1T points

Messaggio da MarioNYC »

I haven't got pictures of the stator only mounted under the flywheel, but yes, to adjust the advance / retard there is the ability to rotate the stator. Hopefully, the person last in there marked the location of both prior to removing the stator. Look for punch marks or aligning marks.

From my manual:
page 44 Capture.JPG
Page 46 Capture.JPG
Mario
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