P501- ROTTURA ALBERO SUPPORTO RUTTORE

[eliap501]

Buongiorno a tutti,

ho di recente acquistato una bellissima ape p501 del 1989.

Sto avendo diversi problemi con le componenti legate al piattello porta ruttore.
Dopo aver regolato le puntine e sostituito il condensatore l'ape ha finalmente iniziato ad andare bene ma già il giorno successivo si è spenta in marcia dopo un vuoto di carburatore.

Avendo verificato che non arrivi la scintilla alla candela, ho quindi ispezionato le puntine che non riescono a muoversi poiché la camma non ruota.
Sganciato il piattello ho guardato dietro: credo di aver rotto il meccanismo che fa si che la camma giri, ma non capisco quale pezzo io debba sostituire.
Allego l'esploso relativo.
Si tratta dell'albero interno al piattello (12) o dell'alberino (20)?
Allego foto delle componenti smontate.

E' possibile che i pezzi rotti siano persi all'interno della zona frizione?
Rischio di causare danni sostituendo solo il nuovo pezzo?

Grazie mille!
Elia

[kjjohnson]

The tip of the drive pin is broken off and stuck inside so it can't rotate the cam to operate the points. You need a new drive pin - Ken

[eliap501]

Thank you very much Ken! i'm worried that the problem might be worse.

I've broken for sure the place where the pin enter in order to make the cum work and i think bot the two bronze cylinders where the two pins stay.
I send you two more pictures.
For now i ordered only this piece but where can i find the other pieces i need to substitute?

https://www.sarrimoto.it/ape/4686-alber ... -p601.html

Thank's a lot for all the help,
Elia

[kjjohnson]

That's bad. Must have seized, hence the damage. You'll have to try and find a replacement but new ones aren't available that I know of so it will be a difficult search. Ken

[eliap501]

Hello Ken might be those two the pieces to be replaced?
for the base of the pin:
https://www.sarrimoto.it/ape/4894-ralli ... 32427.html

and for the bronze ring close to the cam this one?
https://www.smotol.it/Prodotti/tabid/63 ... fault.aspx

Thank you very much for all the help!
Elia

[kjjohnson]

Yes, it's what you'll need. The rallino wears when not well lubricated, often caused by the clutch cable being too tight for oil to lubricate between the thrusting plate and actuating pad. When worn the pressure is so great the tip of the drive pin shears off. Be careful when adjusting the clutch cable. Ken

[eliap501]

Thank you very much ken for all the help.
I ordered almost everything a part from the little bronze ring behind the points that i'm not able to find.
Could you help me identifying the replacement?
Do you have a link were i can buy one online?

I attach a picture with the measurements i took.

E.

[kjjohnson]

I don''t think it's available as a replacement. You'll need to talk to a plumber to find a suitable tube like it - Ken

[eliap501]

Hello Ken,
unfortunately my p 501 is still causing me some problems.
So after a few adjustments the Ape started working fine,
-New exhaust (Sito)
-New kit rallino frizione (it was completely finished)
-New small female pin where the male pin enters in order to let the cam open the points. (P.S. Thanks for the bronze cylinder suggestion we made up a solution like that and the Ape started working again see picture attached)
-New (also the pin that stays inside the rallino) because the old one has broken
-New condenser

After we've changed all these pieces yesterday my p501 stopped again. It's still the broken pin. (see picture attached)
Do you know what to do?
Why do you think the pin continues to break, as all the parts close to the piattello supporto ruttore?

Thank you a lot for all your help,
Elia

[kjjohnson]

It may be the camshaft in the distributor that's seizing or too little clearance for the pin in the brass tube. Friction is the problem and that's why with heat the pin breaks. It was designed to do that. Ken

Make sure there's only one O ring up against the base of the distributor. If there's one in the groove it will block the oil hole and then you're not getting enough lubrication.

[eliap501]

Hi Ken,
thanks a lot for all the help.

I can confirm the distributor has only one o ring where it's supposed to be (see picture attached).
In the picture you can see how we made te new bronze tube out of two bronze cylinders.
I can add that after changing the rallino and regulated the cable after 2 days started getting loose.
We regulated again and after one day got loose again.

What do you recommend to do?
Thank you very much,
Elia

[kjjohnson]

Pull the clutch cover and see if the rallino is worn in such a short time. If you believe the distributor issue is resolved you may have to dig deeper. Have you removed the clutch yet? Ken

[eliap501]

Hello Ken,
we have not removed the clutch yet.
We will double check the rallino first as you recommend.
Do you recommend a kit of replacements for the friction for when we take it down?

Thanks a lot,
Elia

[kjjohnson]

First check the rallino for wear. Then check the thrusting plate for wear as well. If well worn it will cause extra wear on the face of the rallino. Pull the clutch but before taking it apart to check wear on the clutch plate remove the big washers in front of and behind the drive gear. It will be the rear washer that will be probably showing signs of wear. Most important turn the gear over and check for wear on the tiny lip on the back of that gear. I will need a photo of it. Often over time the back of that gear is worn causing the gear to drag and this is where I'm thinking perhaps your problem is located if something catches causing strain on the distributor pin.
Remove the split ring on the rear of the clutch once compressed and look at the clutch plate for wear. Good luck - Ken

Check the brass and steel bushing for wear, the ones inside that gear on the crankshaft good luck

[eliap501]

Dear Ken,
first of all I want to thank you again for all the help you gave me so far.

First we checked the clutch wire again, when the lever was halfway it still didn't pull the wire so it wasn't too tight.
There are black marks about halfway up the shaft that the clutch lever touched halfway up the shaft, sending it off axis and therefore breaking the tip.
We have seen that the clutch ring is worn out again and there are no longer any oil passages.
What can cause such wear in less than 50 km?

It would appear that the pressure plate has been modified by welding a washer onto it. Could this piece be the problem? (See photo)

We couldn't remove the clutch, the central bolt was very hard and we stopped to avoid doing damage.
Could you explain to us how to disassemble it and what tools are needed?

I'm starting to order a new clutch ring and pressure plate.

Hope to speak to you soon,
Elia