My 1966 AD1T

Inserisci le foto e le informazioni del tuo motoveicolo d'epoca (solo anni '50, '60 e '70) / Add you vehicle's photos and info ('50, '60 and '70 only)
smithjames0
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Iscritto il: 20 luglio 2021, 8:48
Ape owned: A1

My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

I thought I would document my Ape and the rebuild / fixes that happen along the way!

I have always liked the Ape, ever since I saw one donkeys years ago when visiting Lake Garda when I was 15, some 25 years late my wife persuaded me to buy one!

The first one we looked at in April 2021 was MP550 is very good condition, the owner, an Italian man had imported, however this ended up selling for more than I was prepared too pay so the hunt continued.....

A few weeks after the first Ape sold the Italian man got in touch to say he had another Ape still in Italy, this was a blue(ish) 1966 AD1T complete with paperwork and still registered to him. He had bought it years ago as a project but never got round to doing anything with, I was told it was running and needed a few minor bits doing to it (new indicators / brakes / seat covers etc) but in 'good' condition for the year.

I was send some pictures of it in Italy
WhatsApp Image 2021-06-12 at 18.49.42 (1).jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2021-06-12 at 18.49.42.jpeg
He said that he would be visiting family in the near future so he would bring it back when he returned, he would also ask a local mechanic to do the brakes. As with all the best made plans, Covid delayed things... so in mid June the Ape was imported...however....

When he tried to start the Ape in Italy it refused to start and they couldn't find out why, the 'mechanic' tried to sort the front brakes only to break the hub and the indicators weren't fixed. The Italian guy was really apologetic and gave me the choice of a slightly newer 400R-E3 Ape, or buy the AD1T at a lower price, a new lower price was agreed and it was delivered to me early July.

The 400R-E3
IMG_6904.JPG
And my AD1T
IMG_6928.jpg
A list of the major non-working parts!
  • It wouldn't start!
    Front hub needed replacing along with brake pads etc
    Countless lights
    The fuel system had a blockage
    Horn
    The starter handle is broke where it attaches to the engine
So the work started
After buying a battery and replacing lots of bulbs all the lights worked, I replaced lots of spade connectors with fixed the horn and a bad earth problem I found. I replaced the fuel line as the old one was block. I replaced the spark plug, checked the point and timing, checked the engine wiring which got the engine working to some degree. I now have a working Ape C-;
IMG_7495.jpg
Out of the original list of faults I need to fix the front brake and the starting handle. In addition I still need to fix the magneto problem.

Regards
James
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mondoape
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Messaggi: 3506
Iscritto il: 19 marzo 2002, 0:00
Ape owned: AD1

Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da mondoape »

Very nice story. %(^
smithjames0
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Messaggi: 26
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Ape owned: A1

Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

A long time since an update so here goes.....

The issues I had the Ape still remain :(( My wife has had me doing DIY jobs so not much has been sorted, what I have done is order parts! To make it easier for people in the future I will break the parts down with the website I ordered them from.

Ordered from Juergen Kamm.GaLabau@t-online.de

Both gear, clutch and choke cables
IMG_7580.jpg
Starting Handle Rubber
IMG_7581.jpg
Engine mounts (Front and Rear)
IMG_7582.jpg
Spring for the front brakes (holds the shoes together)
IMG_7583.jpg
Front headlight surround
IMG_7598.jpg
Total €205.00 / £184.35

Ordered from Mauro Pascoli - www.mauropascoli.it

Little spring clip which holds the front shoes to there pivot (item 15 in the diagram) - Part number A9215
Screenshot 2021-09-08 at 07.49.39.png
IMG_7584.jpg
Lower fixing bolt -Part number W8514
IMG_7585.jpg
Fuel tap gasket - Part number Q1250
IMG_7586.jpg
Rubber cover for the coil contacts - Part number G1068
IMG_7587.jpg
Front hub bearings (two different sizes) Part numbers Smaller - KRP16980 & larger - KRP16930
IMG_7588.jpg
Bulb 6v 3w 38mm - Part number F6272-1
IMG_7589.jpg
Pivot Item 21 on the above diagram, the brake shoes attach to it - Part KRP17035
IMG_7590.jpg
Bolts for the 'snail shell' or fan cover on the engine - Part W8555
IMG_7591.jpg
Rubber gasket for the front headlight - Part number G0967-2
IMG_7592.jpg


Total €134.20 / £119.16

Buzz solo Moto limited - BUZZSOLOMOTO.CO.UK

Front hub oil seal 17x40x7 - Part number 006325
IMG_7593.jpg
Duplicated front hub bearings! Part numbers 6201-2Z & 6203
IMG_7594.jpg
Front shock absorber - Part number 001229
IMG_7595.jpg
Rebuild kit for the front hub - Part number 007730
IMG_7597.jpg
Total £72.20

Found on Kijiji

Front hub - New!
IMG_7596.jpg
Total €93.00 / £84.00

Ebay

A trailer....
7F8BD48D-4E60-4DBC-A30F-A4596F95D0D2.JPG
Total £300.00

Total spend this update £759.71
Ultima modifica di smithjames0 il 6 maggio 2022, 9:19, modificato 1 volta in totale.
smithjames0
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Messaggi: 26
Iscritto il: 20 luglio 2021, 8:48
Ape owned: A1

Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

Other news

After spending months arguing with the DVLA I've finally go the Ape registered! I also managed to find a place who make legal plates the same size as an Italian plate!
The story behind this is that when the sell came to de-register the Ape in Italy he wasn't allowed as the Ape did not have a valid Revisione (Italian MOT) and by the state of the Ape it wouldn't pass one. The seller had to de-register the Ape as he was still paying road tax on it (In Italy you have to pay road tax on a commercial vehicle regardless of age otherwise the 'debt' gets levied against your other assets ie house) as the Ape couldn't be de-registered in Italy the only way round it was to A) MOT.... not going to happen or B) Register it in the UK and send a copy of the v5 to the Italian Motorizzazione Civile office (DVLA) so option B it was Cornuto2

6.5" x 6.5" pressed metal plate - http://www.chestnut-registrations.co.uk
IMG_7962 (1).jpg

I've also got the internal light working C-; using the 6v 3w 38mm bulb listed above
IMG_7954 (1).jpg
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MarioNYC
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Messaggi: 137
Iscritto il: 11 luglio 2012, 15:06
Ape owned: AD1
Località: Poughkeepsie, NY USA

Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da MarioNYC »

That's great news on getting all you needed and from the various sources. I didn't know the cables were still available, I will have to make an order.

When the weather is a bit better here I feel more and more motivated to get my Ape running and back on the road where she belongs.

Mario
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mondoape
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Ape owned: AD1

Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da mondoape »

it seems a very serious and careful job. Well done!
smithjames0
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Messaggi: 26
Iscritto il: 20 luglio 2021, 8:48
Ape owned: A1

Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

I was on holiday in Italy a couple of weeks ago and I used the opportunity to source parts for the Ape, as it turns out none of the car parts shops stock parts for a 1966 Ape even the Piaggio dealer doesn't have parts....oh well.

Yesterday another parcel of parts arrived C-; This time from a company in Italy, https://www.lavespadue.it very quick service to the uk! My only observation was that the English translation of 'APE' wasn't always correct so on some parts 'APE' was spelt as 'EPA' making part searching a little more interesting! It's worth noting that I've found prices can vary lots between different shops, it's worth shopping around.

Front spring (60010997)
IMG_8241.jpg
Startering gear (60012029)
IMG_8242.jpg
Front indicator lenses (60012668)
IMG_8243.jpg
Bulbs 6v 10w BA15S (60013495) (Front and rear running lights)
IMG_8235.jpg
Bulbs 6v 35w35w BA20D (60013485) (Headlight)
IMG_8236.jpg
Bulbs 6v 5w (60013482)

Rubber bushings for the starter lever (60021948)
IMG_8240.jpg
Starter lever return spring (60010958)
IMG_8244.jpg
Engine oil seals (60011902)
IMG_8237.jpg
Front spring holder (60010691)
IMG_8239.jpg
Front spring hub (60021144)
IMG_8238.jpg
Total €119.49 / £101.86

I had these parts in the website's basket for some time as I was waiting for the 6v 3w 38mm bulbs to come back in stock, these didn't come back in stock so I had to source this bulb from eBay, the ones from eBay are the correct voltage, wattage and length but they are wider 11mm vs 8mm (OEM)
IMG_8245.jpg
I also brought some oil for the gearbox and drive legs the manual lists the oil as Esso gear oil 140. I got two cans of Castrol EP140 Classic, £18.95 per can.
IMG_8231.jpg
Total £37.90

Replacing the gaskets wasn't a difficult job, 10mm socket, 17mm ring spanner and a 22mm socket, I found a gasket scraper tool I bought years ago which helped!
IMG_8233.jpg
IMG_8234.jpg
I've also made a start fitting some of the mass of parts I have collected C-;
Jobs completed
  • Fitted new fuel tap gasket
  • Fitted new starting handle rubber
  • Fitted new fuel line
  • Cleaned the carburettor and fitted new gaskets
  • Rewired the coil and fitted the rubber boot
  • Drained, cleaned and fitted new gaskets and oil to the drive legs
Jobs to do
  • Change gearbox oil
  • Buy a battery
  • Buy a battery bracket
  • Fit all the other parts :D
The other issue I have at the moment it that I cannot get the Ape started, I can get it fire once or twice using 'Quick Start' but it dies after that. I have a spark, air just not sure about fuel.

Total spend this update £139.76
Total spend £899.47
Ultima modifica di smithjames0 il 6 maggio 2022, 9:23, modificato 1 volta in totale.
smithjames0
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Messaggi: 26
Iscritto il: 20 luglio 2021, 8:48
Ape owned: A1

Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

Another update C-;

I've had the Ape running ok, driving it round some of the quieter roads near home, there is still a problem with it starting so I order some parts for the carb. I've documented each of the parts I have bought hopefully it will help others who are rebuilding a Dell'orto shb 25 -22. To note I've already replaced the paper gaskets.
Screenshot 2022-04-26 at 12.33.09.png
Item numbers refer to the above diagram

I bought these parts from Eurocarb http://www.dellorto.co.uk - very good service!

Bango bolt seal 4052.30 - item 21 (Its the gasket for the bolt which holds the fuel pipe / filter on)
IMG_8260.jpg
Fuel bango bolt 4568.38 - item 22 (The bolt for the fuel bango)
IMG_8261.jpg
Rod slide seal 2383 - item 5 (The accelerator cable pulls a rod out of the carb, this is the seal for it)
IMG_8262.jpg
Fuel filter 6109.29 - item 19
IMG_8263.jpg
F.B nut seal for 6267 - item 26 (The seal for the nut on the bottom of the float chamber)
IMG_8264.jpg
Needle value 4559.05 - item 30
IMG_8265.jpg
Adjusting nuts 1691.27 - item 12
IMG_8266.jpg
O ring 6264.30 - item 24 (Float chamber O ring)
IMG_8267.jpg
Cable adjusters - item 13
1104.37 19mm thread length
1575.37 24mm thread length
IMG_8268.jpg
Total spend this update £46.15
Total spend £945.62

Regards
James
Ultima modifica di smithjames0 il 6 maggio 2022, 9:24, modificato 1 volta in totale.
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MarioNYC
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Messaggi: 137
Iscritto il: 11 luglio 2012, 15:06
Ape owned: AD1
Località: Poughkeepsie, NY USA

Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da MarioNYC »

It's so great seeing your Ape getting the love and attention it needs.

I really have to get on mine soon. Geographic distances make my parts sourcing a little costlier and longer in wait, but having the only Ape running around here eventually would be worth it.

Keep on posting those updates and photos!!!

Mario
smithjames0
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Messaggi: 26
Iscritto il: 20 luglio 2021, 8:48
Ape owned: A1

Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

Progress update

I've fitted all the new cables now, they were quite quick to thread through the frame if you use the other cable as a draw-cable attaching the old and new cables together end-to-end with gaffer tape B-) The gear cables were a little trick to adjust, the gears are a little hit and miss at the moment.

I fitted all the new carb pieces, the needle valve made a massive difference! The old needle value was worn on the point (I will try and take a picture) The Ape runs very smooth but there is a lack of fuel when starting it, I've put another order in this time for a new float and choke value.

Over the weekend I completed a number of other jobs -

Mocked up the new front hub assembly, I still need parts....in particular the dust seals for the bearings
IMG_8292.jpg
IMG_8293.jpg
I also made a new seat as the old one was well past it's best. To make the seat base I used 9mm plywood with the following captive nuts
IMG_8329.jpg
I used 6cm high density foam from Dunelm.com £22 for a sheet, I used contact advise to stick the foam to the wood before I cut it to size.
IMG_8330.jpg
IMG_8331.jpg
The seat cover came with the Ape when I bought it so I am not sure where it came from. To attach the seat cover I used a staple gun and a lott of help from the wife!
IMG_8333.jpg
IMG_8334.jpg
Just a note for those people with a manual start Ape, make sure seat isn't to wide otherwise when you try and start the engine the starting handle hits the seat.

Total spend this update £22.00
Total spend £967.62

Regards
James
Allegati
IMG_8332.jpg
Ultima modifica di smithjames0 il 6 maggio 2022, 9:25, modificato 1 volta in totale.
smithjames0
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Messaggi: 26
Iscritto il: 20 luglio 2021, 8:48
Ape owned: A1

Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

Another update......

I am trying to keep up with the parcels which keep arriving, yesterday three parcels turned up :D

As I mentioned in my last post although the Ape runs a lot better it's still hard to start, there is a lack of fuel which starting (the plug is dry) so I called Eurocarb http://www.dellorto.co.uk they mentioned about checking the choke value size and checking the pipes in the carb on the choke circuit. I checked the choke value (size 70) it's clean and all the pipes in the carb where clean. I did find the a little vent which leads from the float chamber up the side of the side housing which was blocked, Eurocarb told me this is the float chamber vent which allows air to escape from the float chamber stopping air locks in the fuel system, lots of carb cleaner soon cleaned it! While on the phone I ordered a new float and float pin.

Ordered from Eurocarb http://www.dellorto.co.uk

Float 6289 6gr £11.67 (The new float is the white one!)
IMG_8337.jpg
Float pin 6247.22 £2.02
In above picture

Total £13.69

For reference the part number on this float diagram are the part numbers for dellorto, the only problem is the values all have the same part number regardless of size.

I realised that the handbrake cables were sticking really badly, so I ordered a new set from Juergen.....I don't know why I didn't order these ages ago!

Ordered from Juergen Kamm.GaLabau@t-online.de

Handbrake cables €22
IMG_8339.jpg
Foot brake boot €9
IMG_8338.jpg
Shipping €13

Total €44.00 / £37.54

I have also ordered some other bits from Italy, mainly as I couldn't find a battery tray for my model Ape anywhere else and as I was placing an order I but some other bits in the basket!

Ordered from https://www.lamotoricambi.it/

Battery bracket - Part number 1015nero €40:00
IMG_8340.jpg
Leather door straps - Part number la001mar €4.00
IMG_8341.jpg
Seals for under the 'dashboard' - Part number 71726N €10.00
Screenshot 2022-05-05 at 21.44.55.png
IMG_8342.jpg
Seal / trim which goes on the seam under the windscreen - Part number 115586n €10.00
Screenshot 2022-05-05 at 21.54.22.png
IMG_8343.jpg
Seal for under the seat - Part number 105184n €10.00 (I did try and test fit this last night without much success)
IMG_8344.jpg
Inc shipping €109.00 / £92.99

To do list
  • Fit all the above parts :((
  • Modify the trailer for the Ape
  • Find dust seals for the front wheel bearings
Total spend this update £143.69
Total spend £1,111.31

Regards
James
smithjames0
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Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

With the weather being dry for once I took the Ape for a drive round where I live, in total I covered about 5 miles F<) She drove well and put quite a few smiles on peoples faces as I zipped passed. I called to get some petrol £1.65 per litre :((
IMG_8372.jpg
The next job on my list was to fit the new battery tray I ordered before as the original one had rusted beyond repair. The new battery tray is slight bigger and the mounting holes do not line up so a little modification was needed, at least now the battery isn't rolling around!
IMG_8376.jpg
The next job was to sort the rear brakes out, they poor at the best of times! First I fitted the new hand brake cable which was quite straight forward - the old cable was seized :( This didn't fix the handbrake not working so I removed the drums to inspect the brake shoes.

When I brought the Ape I was told that the brakes had been looked at and were ok, so I was interested to what condition they were in.
IMG_8383.jpg
The brakes looked ok, nothing that stood out as being broken / missing / worn, but when I pressed the brake pedal the brake piston didn't move very far, so I thought that there could be air in the system / very old brake fluid. So with the help of my daughter I bled the brakes........which didn't improve them much OI-
IMG_8389.jpg
I have ordered new brake shoes to see if that will help, although the old ones still have some meat on them.

In my last update I had ordered a new float for the carb, this made a massive difference to how the engine runs, it now starts second time! But, I now had fuel leaking from the fuel bango on the carb, the people at dell otto had said this can be caused by over tightening the fuel bango nut which deforms the metal bango, so I ordered a new one!

Eurocarb http://www.dellorto.co.uk - very good service!

Bango 6273.38 - £6.46
IMG_8386.jpg
IMG_8387.jpg
Pictured over is the old (left) and new (right) as the design has changed slightly - the differences are only minor - if you are have a fuel leak from round the bango it might be worth fitting a new bango and fuel filter.

On other news my Ape will be on show at the Smallwood Vintage Rally 27th, 28th, 29th May Link here

Total spend this update £6.46
Total spend £1,117.77

Regards
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MarioNYC
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Messaggi: 137
Iscritto il: 11 luglio 2012, 15:06
Ape owned: AD1
Località: Poughkeepsie, NY USA

Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da MarioNYC »

That battery tray looks like it could handle the modern larger 6v batteries like used in my VW bus. In fact, I can swap some electrical back and forth should one of the other need parts.

The rear brakes aren't adjusted at the bottom, opposite the brake cylinder at the opposite fulcrum of the brake? I ask while looking up my manual.
( I didn't see it in the parts diagram, usually it's a star wheel that can be turned from the axel side to adjust the drum brakes)

So, your petrol has us beat, we pay about $4.70 per gallon vs. your approximate $7.81 per gallon after conversions.

Keep up the posts! I will one day get out to the shed to sort my Ape out so I can register her for the road!

Mario
smithjames0
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Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da smithjames0 »

@MarioNYC - The battery tray is wider than the original, I am trying to source a 6v gel battery like the original but it's proving hard work, for the moment I am using a motorbike battery cable tied down!

I've checked the manual and I cannot find any adjustment mechanism on the rear brakes, which is strange as hub brakes normally have a automatic mechanism which you have to let-off before removing the hub. New shoes have been ordered so that will be a job for later!

I been trying to source parts to build a new front hub, over the months I've sourced the bearings, spring, shock absorber etc but there are few bits I still need to get hold off. This was my latest order;

Ordered from Mauro Pascoli - www.mauropascoli.it
image2.JPEG
W8384 - Part 29 - €5.00
IMG_8394.jpg
MP92873 - Part 28 - €23.00
IMG_8395.jpg
DM12347 - Part 33 - €2.86 - Front axle washer
IMG_8396.jpg
MPS6647 - Part 37 - €5.00 - Circlip
IMG_8397.jpg
MP93343 - Part 38 - €15.00 - Dust seal wheel side
IMG_8398.jpg
RP3161 - Incorrect part ordered, this is a starter bushing? - rondella di tenuta feltro sul boccolo di avviamento?
IMG_8401.jpg
G1155-1 - €20.48
IMG_8402.jpg
F6272-1 - 6V 38mm x 6.5mm 3w bulbs €20.40 (I ordered 10!)
IMG_8400.jpg
W8531-3 - €1.04 - Oil drain washers
IMG_8399.jpg
I still need to source a new dust seal for the nut side of the axle (Part 31) can anyone help?

Total spend this update £118.17 / €139.46
Total spend £1,235.94
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brugnara
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Messaggi: 90
Iscritto il: 14 gennaio 2022, 18:12
Ape owned: ATM2

Re: My 1966 AD1T

Messaggio da brugnara »

For the missing part number 31 you mentioned: do you have the Piaggio code, please?

And for the wrong part you mentioned above, I have no clue :-B
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